Дали сме наследници на АнтичкитеМакедонци

Извадок од форум на швајцарцкиот институт за генетика Игенеа (www.igenea.com)

Beitrag von iGENEA am 01.10.2008 
ZU GK: 

Thank you for your Email. I must specify we haven't been contacted through this journalist, so it is possible the article or reportage didn't include all details correctly. A antic macedonian genetic profile exists and has been discovered through the comparison of archaeological funds and persons with macedonian roots. These studies enable us to determine the macedonian roots of a person. We have 30% of macedonians in Macedonia, 20% in Greece an minorities in Bulgaria and Albania. 

It is very important to differ between politics and genetics, we are a genetic institute and we don't have politic aims. 
All our data are published under the menupoint "Litterature", here the direct link: 
http://www.igenea.com/docs/bibliographie.pdf 

Albania: 
30% Illyrians 
15% Phoenician 
14% Hellenen 
18%Thraker 
2% Vikings 
20% slavs 

Greece: 
10% Germanic 
10%illyrians 
20% slavs 
20% phoenician 
5% macedonian (in north more than 18%) 
35% Hellenen 

Bulgaria: 
49%Thraker 
11%macedonian 
15%slavs 
15%hellenen 
5% pheonician 

Macedonia: 
30%macedonian 
10% illyrian 
15% hellenen 
5%phoenician 
20% germanic 
5% hunnen 
15% slavs 

We analyse genetic tribes, not all political or historical tribes can be differed genetically. It is very important to differ between genetics and history or anthropology. All these branches can benefit from each other, but not all theories will be proved through genetics. A lot of primitive tribes, whose existence is proved, cannot be genetically differed from other tribes. 
Numbers are just an average from all these studies in proportion to the taken samples. You will find the error and sample sizes in all studies. Please read one of them and you will find all information about sample size. Through taking an average we avoid errors. We are not the National Statistical Institute, who looks where the inhabitants come from, but we show which haplogroups and primitive tribes are the most frequent. 

Inma Pazos
iGENEA
Tel. +41 (0)43 233 81 51
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com 
Beitrag von iGENEA am 01.10.2008 
Vielen Dank an Kult und Olaf: Die letzte Zeit war ziemlich stressig. Jetzt geht es zwar nicht gegen iGENEA, aber dafür habe ich die Politik am Hals :-) Ich freue mich, wenn das Forum das alte wird... 

Inma Pazos
iGENEA
Tel. +41 (0)43 233 81 51
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com 
Beitrag von GK am 01.10.2008 
I am sorry but because of the importance of these claims I have to ask you to be a bit more specific. The issue is political apart from genetical and historical and this is an unfortunate but unavoidable truth. What I would like to have direct answers for, if possible, are the following points : 

A. You said you had DNA samples from genuine ancient Macedonians. Can you specify the source and number? Have you asked for samples from the respective Ministries of Greece and FYRoMacedonia, which they provided or have you obtained them through other sources? 

B. Do you claim that these samples are not from other nations/races that historically inhabited the region we nowadays call Macedonia but back then was known by other names (like the Paeones, Dardani, Agriani etc). Is this \"Macedonian\" gene directly ascribed to the tribe of the Macedonians (a small minority of the people who inhabited the region) or to the people who inhabited the whole region before, during and after the times of Philip II? According to your words \"A lot of primitive tribes, whose existence is proven, cannot be genetically differed from other tribes.\" Of course we can understand that. The DNA evidence might be scarce or the genetic proximity with a more numerous tribe too close. In the said case, what made you determine your finds as \"Macedonian\" and not as \"Central Balkan\" or \"Dardan\"? 

C. The samples you have in your possession are dated from what historical periods? 

D. Aproximately when, according to your research, has the mutation of the \"Macedonian\" DNA taken place and what are its ancient roots? Are we talking centuries, millenia? 

E. Is there any, by you detected, genetic difference between other Greek tribes such as the Ionians, the Aeolians etc? 

F. Could you explain to us the difference between the Hellenic and the \"Macedonian\" DNA you detected and how far apart these two, according to your researches, distinct nations (Urvoelker)are genetically, especially with regard to their other neighboring Illyrians and Thracians and with the late coming Slavs? 

F. In the tables, do you use data from people who inhabit that country or people who claim to be of the country\'s nationality? I guess the former, but I would like to be certain. 

Thanks in advance, 

P.S. Sorry for my persistance and I am aware that you are hesitant to talk politics, but your words and numbers are already being used politically and it would be helpful to everyone if there would be as much and clear information on the matter as possible, so that your institute avoids discredit and be used as a credible source. 
Beitrag von GK am 01.10.2008 
And one more question. Why do the numbers in your statistics not match with the numbers you publish in the forum? Are the latter a more recent, updated statistic? 

Thanks again 

GK 
Beitrag von iGENEA am 01.10.2008 
A really short question :-) 

"A. You said you had DNA samples from genuine ancient Macedonians. Can you specify the source and number? Have you asked for samples from the respective Ministries of Greece and FYRoMacedonia, which they provided or have you obtained them through other sources? " 

The samples form ancient macedonian profiles come from archaeolical found around the world. The majority come from the university in Madrid, Stanford and I know two studies come from the University in Belgrad. In our bibliography you will find which samples, how many, from where and in which time exacty. Please read the studies! It is impossible to resume all data here. There are more than 150 study and each one has a different sample size, a different method and a different question research. They are not longer than 10 pages and through reading the abstract you will get the necessary informations to your questions. Without reading, you cannot get further informations. Please consider the comparison of all these studies is enterprise property, you must read alone, but all sources are there. 

"B. Do you claim that these samples are not from other nations/races that historically inhabited the region we nowadays call Macedonia but back then was known by other names (like the Paeones, Dardani, Agriani etc). Is this \"Macedonian\" gene directly ascribed to the tribe of the Macedonians (a small minority of the people who inhabited the region) or to the people who inhabited the whole region before, during and after the times of Philip II? According to your words \"A lot of primitive tribes, whose existence is proven, cannot be genetically differed from other tribes.\" Of course we can understand that. The DNA evidence might be scarce or the genetic proximity with a more numerous tribe too close. In the said case, what made you determine your finds as \"Macedonian\" and not as \"Central Balkan\" or \"Dardan\"? " 

You mix her again a lot of theories. Please differ between history and genetics. All these branches can benefit from each other, but not all theories will be proved through genetics. A lot of primitive tribes, whose existence is proved, cannot be genetically differed from other tribes. The samples used for isoling the antic macedonian profil are samples determined as "antic macedonian" from archeologists and anthropologists. 

"C. The samples you have in your possession are dated from what historical periods?" 

I must repeat myself again, please read my threads more accurately. I described it three times: WE DONT HAVE THESE SAMPLES. WE COMPARED AND ANALYSED ALL RENOMEE STUDIES AROUND THE WORLD, PUBLISHED IN MAGAZINS WITH A HIGH REPUTATION, WHICH ANALISED GENETIC TRIBES. Through comparing methods, samples sizes and results, you can avoid and restrinct errors in statistics. This was our work, the collection of all this data. The macedonian profile hasn't been discovered through our enterprise, there are more than 23 genetic studies from different universities, which have analysed this profile. The age from these samples is described in the studies. Please read it: 
http://www.igenea.com/docs/bibliographie.pdf 

"D. Aproximately when, according to your research, has the mutation of the \"Macedonian\" DNA taken place and what are its ancient roots? Are we talking centuries, millenia?" 

An age is unknow, but to develop specific mutations for a folk, you need to live more than 500 years in the same group. Example: Your profile will be specific for jews if you marry jews, your children also, their children again... After living a half millenium in the same group of persons, the genpool mix himself and we can see specific mutations. So to have specific mutations you need to live in another region or to live isolated (f.e. through religious traditions, which forbid you to marry other folks). 

"E. Is there any, by you detected, genetic difference between other Greek tribes such as the Ionians, the Aeolians etc?" 

Until now no genetic difference has been discovered between Ionian, Athenians or Aeolians, just the Hellas-Profil exists. But it is possible than genetic studies show a genetic difference in future. We have the same case in the german tribes. We all know there were a lot of different german tribes, but until now it is impossible to differ it genetically. 

"F. Could you explain to us the difference between the Hellenic and the \"Macedonian\" DNA you detected and how far apart these two, according to your researches, distinct nations (Urvoelker)are genetically, especially with regard to their other neighboring Illyrians and Thracians and with the late coming Slavs?" 

There are not so big differences, but there are some mutations typically for Macedonians than for Hellenic tribes. The Macedonians for examples have a bigger relativness to Thracian tribes than to Hellenic tribes. 

"F. In the tables, do you use data from people who inhabit that country or people who claim to be of the country\'s nationality? I guess the former, but I would like to be certain. " 

Numbers are just an average from all these studies in proportion to the taken samples. You will find the error and sample sizes in all studies. In these studies normally Quotes has been used to have a right sample and the nationalty of these persons has been analysed. A demographically split has not been carried out (for example a difference between serbians in Croatia and Croatias in Croatia). 

Inma Pazos
iGENEA
Tel. +41 (0)43 233 81 51
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com 
Beitrag von iGENEA am 01.10.2008 
"And one more question. Why do the numbers in your statistics not match with the numbers you publish in the forum? Are the latter a more recent, updated statistic?" 

I don't know exactly which numbers are you talking about, but this forum begans 2007 and last year more than 200 studies have been published, so these are the most recent data. 

Inma Pazos
iGENEA

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